Standard Posted by joelnickel Posted on April 1, 2011 Posted under Philosophy, Politics, Religion Comments 7 Comments A Perfect World In 6 Lines – (World Leaders Take Note) Advertisements Share this:FacebookTwitterEmailGoogleMoreLinkedInRedditPrintLike this:Like Loading... Related AbortionDrugsExistenceGay MarriagePerfect WorldRightsSex Post navigation ← “Yeah, you’re definitely going to jail…” – Nostalgic Comic Alice (Disney Remix) → 7 thoughts on “A Perfect World In 6 Lines – (World Leaders Take Note)” “Don’t Like Slavery? Don’t Own A Slave.” Yeah! Liberalism totally rules! Reply Interesting point. But that’s not what I’m arguing. Owning slaves would definitely be in the “don’t take others’ rights away” category. Granted, I know that there are unpleasant people out there who (as is human nature) would try to exploit the system for personal gain. Maybe I’m a hippie, but not a big enough hippie to think there shouldn’t be laws and law enforcement. I just think people should be persecuted for legitimate reasons and not because they love someone of the same sex, or are a university student selling marijuana to your friends in Residence, or because they are doctors who perform abortions, or because they have premarital sex. Reply You say, “Don’t Like Abortion? Don’t Have one.” That’s only a reasonable arguing if you believe the unborn child is not actually a human being, or doesn’t deserve rights. I don’t agree with that, so my response is “Don’t Like Slavery? Don’t Own A Slave.” And I do that to point out the hypocrisy. I couldn’t care less about gay “marriage,” so someone else can have that battle. You can’t legalize drugs because doing so would be bad for society. A cost benefit analysis must be applied and consider. The cost would greatly outweigh the benefits, even when you take into consideration the absurd amount of money the War on Drugs has cost. In lives and dollars, it has been an expensive, but justified war. I think you could legalize pot without much of a problem. But other drugs? I don’t think so. Pot, in my view, is no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco, so there is no legitimate reason to outlaw it unless you want to outlaw those other drugs, which has been tired before (with booze) and proved ineffective and quite deadly. I’m for the government staying out of people’s bedrooms, so I don’t care about the sex one, except to say children should not be taught it is okay at their age. I can see from the otherside as someone who believes that all people are born with a soul and a purpose and guided by a higher power that abortion would be a horrible thing. But I don’t believe that is the case. We are homo sapiens. We don’t have souls. There’s no place we go when we die, we’re just dead. So the fact that people say that there’s a “person” inside an embryo doesn’t make any sense. A “person” is only a person because of the way the he interacts within a society. A person may have a kind of “personality” but that’s only made up from experiences that person has had during his life in a society. If there was a lone person who grew up outside of society completely devoid of communication with other homo sapiens, that person would not be a “person”. We have 6.9 billion people on the planet and a lot of them are starving and in military conflicts. That doesn’t sound like the outcome of some divine plan by a higher power who loves and cares for us and is making way for us in his home in paradise. As for the war on drugs, just because drugs are legal wouldn’t suddenly make people run out and become meth addicts. It’s easy enough to get drugs now, it’s just that there’s a heavy penalty for things that shouldn’t be illegal. I still think that if your drug experience causes inconvenience or even damage to another person’s life, there should be legal consequences. Just like driving a car. It’s not illegal to drink. It’s not illegal to drive. But when you drink AND drive, you get pulled over and reprimanded. Stopping arrests for non-violent drug offenses would end up saving the government ridiculous amounts of money they could use on fighting battles that are actually important, like our economy. As for sex, I do think it should be taught that is okay at their age and that there’s nothing bad, or evil, or sinful about sex. But most importantly, they should be taught about safety, venereal diseases, and condoms. Reiterating what I said before, we are homo sapiens. We reach sexually mature in our teens. We are an organism that is made to procreate. That is our purpose on the planet. It’s insane to tell teens who are thinking about little else than sex, that sex is a bad thing, and you shouldn’t do it until you’re older without communicating to them why you believe that. People argue that teens aren’t emotionally ready to have sex, but I don’t think you’re giving teens enough credit. Reply Joel, Some may consider your first premise inductively valid at best, which is to say, inconclusive. You cannot know whether there is a God, or a heaven, or a hell You cannot know where we go when we leave the Earth. You cannot know any of these things, and because you cannot know, you cannot make such sweeping claims. If you want me to prove to you there is a God, I cannot. I can make a logical argument for His existence, but that is another argument entirely. I never use religion or God to justify my pro-life arguments. Never! And to prove it, I will offer you a challenge I have offered many others: Go to my blog and type abortion in the search box and all of my pro-life posts will come up. If you can find a single time I have used God, the Bible, or anything at all supernatural to justify my pro-life position, I will send you $100 via PayPal. No questions or dispute. If you can find it, I pay. And those who frequent my blog often – many agree with you – can tell you I’m quite serious. Find it, I pay. Simple as that. Many have taken the challenge, but nobody – but nobody – has won. And do you know why? Because I’m what you might call a bilingual Christian; I can speak Secular just as good as Holly Roller. All of my pro-life arguments are wholly secular. So, in a nutshell, why am I pro-life? Simple. Unborn Children Are Human Beings. By reading what some of our Founding Fathers had to say, and almost all of the early feminists, I don’t believe abortion is a right; I don’t believe you have the right to take the life of another – whether they know it or not – without just cause, and unless the child poses an immediate danger to the woman, there is no just cause in my view. You must keep in mind that abortion was prohibited under English Common Law after quickening. I’m of the mind that had the technology been available in that era to recognize that unborn children are alive long before movement, it would have been prohibited at all time under English Common Law. “Beautiful and undeviating life begins, in the contemplation of law, the moment the child stirs in the womb” ~ John Witherspoon, a Founding Father. (Note: In England, abortion was prohibited at all times under ecclesiastical law.) Would the legalization make people do drugs? Not all people, no. But do I believe some people – or a good handful – would “try” them because they are so easily available? Absolutely I do. As a consequence, a huge public safety risk would be realized, and a whole host of other problems would as well. Are hard drugs legal anywhere else in the world to use as a comparison? I don’t know, because I haven’t researched it much. I know pot is legal in Amsterdam, but that’s not useful in this debate because I’m in agreement with you on that one. That would depend on what age we’re talking about. I think sex education should begin when you’re about eleven or twelve, but not much sooner than that. Do I think they should be taught it’s evil? No. Do I think children should be taught abstinence-only? No. I believe abstinence-included education should be taught, with the emphasis being abstinence. You and me are going to disagree on most issues, because you seem to be a moral relativist, and I’m definitely not. If nothing else, I’m a practical Christian conservative. I say practical because I was a teenager not that long ago. LOL. I haven’t forgotten the pressures. Reply First of all, I want to say how I appreciate how eloquently you argue your points and that you don’t use ad hominem attacks. Thank you very much. I agree that in the framework of an unborn child having some larger significance that abortion would be an atrocious, vile act, likened to murder. But I believe that a grouping of cells cannot be labeled as “life”. However, I don’t believe that abortion should be used as a form of contraception. I think abortions should be used in instances of rape, when a woman’s life would be endangered from carrying the child to term, and when the child would not have much of a life if he were born into the world. I think this fits under the teenage sex column as well, if teens are educated about pregnancy and condoms instead of being told, “don’t have sex until marriage because I said so,” there would be fewer teenage pregnancies and fewer teenage abortions. I would agree with an abstinence-included education, because some people just aren’t interested in sex. And if teens were taught you should be having sex they would feel as though there’s something wrong with them if they aren’t…exactly how some teens feel now with having sexual feelings but being taught abstinence-only sex education and feeling like there’s something wrong with them. Once again I want to say how much I appreciate this discussion. And I’m pleased that two people can disagree, yet still have a civil, engaging conversation. Reply No problem, Joel. I’ve been down that whole “be rude to the other side” road before, and it hasn’t worked out so well. You end up with a terrible discussion filled with nothing but hate; no reason, just attack. Not worth it. Surprisingly, your abortion views are not all that dissimilar from mine. I’m still deciding a position on the rape/incest issue, thinking about supporting the legalization of a morning-after-pill that women could purchase over-the-counter at a low cost. This would obviate the worry of women who are simply too embarrassed to seek medical attention or, worse, to report the incident. My hope is that it would totally remove rape from the abortion discussion. In the case of a medically necessary abortion, it is unfortunate, but it must be legal. That is about the only abortion I believe should be legal. I know some diseases are horrible and you think there is no hope, but medical science advances every single day. Who knows what cure might come about? And also, I reject the idea that I can decide what the quality of life lived by another will be. I don’t know, and nobody but that person could know. So aborting deformed or ill children is not something I support. Your views on sex education are pretty consistent with mine. Nice talking to you. I’m going to subscribe, I think. Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Enter your comment here... Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Email (required) (Address never made public) Name (required) Website You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. ( Log Out / Change ) You are commenting using your Twitter account. ( Log Out / Change ) You are commenting using your Facebook account. ( Log Out / Change ) You are commenting using your Google+ account. 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